Latvian dance artists Rūta Pūce and Rūta Ronja Pakalne joined the Baltic Dance Network with their workshop “Navigating Body Archives,” which took place in Tallinn, Estonia, in November. The duo was brought together by a shared interest in body archiving, exploring origins, and questions of identity. So when they saw the open call for the programme, it felt natural — they thought, “Okay, maybe we should do it.”
Rūta Pūce and Rūta Ronja Pakalne, photo by Rebecca Green.
You two started working together after the dance lab in Sweden a few years ago. What brought you two together?
Rūta Pūce: It was a coincidence and the best thing that could have happened to us. After the dance lab in Sweden, we each began working on separate projects, but after some time a few of our colleagues noticed that we were interested in the same theme: body archiving, exploring where we come from, and our identity. When we saw the open call for the Baltic Dance Network programme, it felt natural — we thought, okay, “Maybe we should do it together.”
Rūta Ronja Pakalne: I think it’s also very interesting because we first met in 2011, when we were both studying in the same programme — the bachelor’s in dance in Riga. After the first two years, I left to study in Brussels, and Rūta stayed at the academy in Riga. Our paths continued individually, but we always kept in touch. And since I’m from Latvia, whenever I visited, that connection was always there.
Rūta Pūce: And we always talked about doing something together. So here we are.
Could you explain your concept of the body as an archive? What is the main idea behind it?
Rūta Pūce: When I started developing my ideas, I approached them from an anatomical perspective. Of course, I have experiences, but I also have a body — I have intestines, bones, everything inside me. I can study it, sense it, use it. So understanding what the human body consists of became part of my approach.
I think that by cherishing the past, we can open ourselves to seeing what we already have. Why shouldn’t I use what’s there? Why should I think I need something entirely new? This, for me, is the main idea behind the body as an archive.
After today, when we finally tried out everything we had been thinking about, I came to one conclusion: how can we notice what is already here? If I treat my body, or the bodies I work with, as archives, then the idea becomes that I’m not creating something new — I’m searching for methods to open this body archive. To let movement come from what is already inside, and to let so-called new ideas emerge, which are actually not new at all, because they live in us through everything we have experienced.
Rūta Ronja Pakalne: Our research started earlier — even before the Baltic Dance Network announced the call. We had already been talking about the different contexts in which we grew up in dance, and how these contexts shape us. We initially discussed what the differences actually are between Lithuanians, Latvians, and Estonians, because I truly believe those differences are significant.
My way of looking at the body as an archive comes from the performance Body of Dreams, which was rooted in a choreographic perspective — in the professional body and the archive it accumulates over time. So my perspective is more choreographic.
Workshop “Navigating Body Archives,”, photo by Rebecca Green.
How did you combine these two different perspectives when developing the practice?
Rūta Pūce: So practically, we first wrote down everything we were each individually interested in within this topic. Then we listed all the methods and tools we had already used in our own performances or research. After that, we really started to discuss and compare our approaches. And then we met in Riga, tried things out, combined and mixed our approaches, experimented again — and that eventually brought us here.
Rūta Ronja Pakalne: And I think what was interesting is that some of the things we were working with overlapped, while others were slightly different. I would say that while preparing for the workshop, we either clarified certain ideas even more, or changed and shifted some things. Then we began combining our approaches — something from Ruta’s direction, something from mine — and we noticed that these research moments could actually work together.
This workshop premiered in Tallinn. What are your impressions after the first session?
Rūta Pūce: We decided not to join the group activities because we wanted to observe and facilitate what was happening. That was new for me, since I usually take part together with the group.
Rūta Ronja Pakalne: For me as well — but I also found it really valuable to simply observe. Someone said during the final reflection that they felt grounded, and I think that summed up the atmosphere well. After the whole day, I didn’t feel exhausted but rather pleasantly sleepy and relaxed, like, “I can go home and rest now.”
I also heard reflections about something awakening in people — whether individually or as a group. It also encourages playfulness and curiosity; it gives you the opportunity to explore different states of mind, depending on how you approach it. And of course, if you remain open, it can offer you certain tools. We are, in a way, “copyrighting” the workshop, but what truly matters is the experience you can take with you.
Rūta Pūce and Rūta Ronja Pakalne, photo by Rebecca Green.
What does the concept of Baltic Dance Identity mean to you as an individual and an artist?
Rūta Ronja Pakalne: Well, for me, I left Latvia in 2013 to study at PARTS in Brussels. I really like this small pond / big pond analogy. In my experience, growing up in dance, I always thought of the big pond as the place I needed to reach — all the big opportunities, bigger cities, bigger countries. It felt like they had more possibilities, more resources, more recognition.
When I finally got there as a student, I could see that there were indeed many opportunities. But I also realized very important things about myself. That’s when I decided that I didn’t want to be part of this massive, busy system. For me, it became important to come back to the Baltics. I see myself as an important educator and dance artist in this field here, so I feel it’s crucial to continue working in the country where I am based. I often ask myself a simple question: who will do it if we all leave? How can the scene develop?
Rūta Pūce: I think the Baltic concept itself carries a certain power in the artistic field because of the freedom we got. I feel it’s quite different from other regions, like Western European countries. But I’m not sure if there is a single Baltic Dance Identity — I don’t think there is. Still, I do feel that we share a mutual understanding on political and cultural levels, and I think that’s important.
Rūta Ronja Pakalne: It feels to me that each Baltic country has its own direction in how it exists within dance. But, as you just said, we all understand each other. I think when I go to a very big festival and meet someone from Lithuania, I think, “Oh, Lithuania — I know you.” At those large festivals, you can sometimes feel like you’re from a tiny place that no one knows.
How do you think your cultural, social and political background influences your choreographic work?
Rūta Pūce: Before studying choreography, I also studied cultural studies and I think I’ve been greatly influenced by the place where I studied in Riga — the Latvian Academy of Culture, where some of the ideas were promoted as “great ideas.” I noticed that I had formed certain opinions about how things should be done, or what kind of knowledge one needs to create something. Once I became aware of it, I tried to step away from it and just be a normal person in everyday life, making work I like and creating art I enjoy.
Rūta Ronja Pakalne: Back in 2013, and for a few years after, when I was at PARTS in Brussels, I really felt what it’s like to come from a small country that no one seemed to care about. At that time, there was only one person from Latvia and another from Lithuania. Being there among so many students, you kind of feel the need to justify — not your existence per se, but your presence in that particular school.
I remember that, for me, constantly emphasizing Latvia, Latvia, Latvia in my mind became a bit overwhelming. At some point I just let go. I thought, I can’t focus on this anymore. Now, when I go to different places, I can simply say, yes, I’m from Latvia, without feeling the need to promote it or overemphasize it.
Regarding my work, I don’t make political art intentionally, but somehow it is inevitably connected to everything I’ve experienced — the people, the context, the current situation. In that way, it still becomes political, in a sense.
Another important thing for me is that I try to do things differently from how my teachers did them, or differently from what didn’t work for me. It’s like the saying a parent might have: “I won’t make the same mistakes my parents did.” Of course, sometimes you still do, but I don’t want to follow the exact same path.
For me, this is also connected to the context we live in today and the kind of world we inhabit. I still hear a lot of rules like, “Nowadays, we can’t touch students; we have to be extremely careful, or parents and students will be upset.” These rules come from a background where, in the Baltics, we were often mistreated or not treated very well — not everyone, of course, but the history has shaped these fears.
Now, some people may feel we are overthinking it. I don’t agree. As a teacher, I always ask my students — sometimes three times — “Is it okay if I touch you to show something?” I want to make sure they feel safe and that nothing I do will harm them physically or emotionally. I think it’s better to approach teaching this way than to repeat past mistakes.
Workshop “Navigating Body Archives,”, photo by Rebecca Green.
You both teach and travel throughout the Baltics. What similarities and differences between the countries would you highlight?
Rūta Pūce: Of course, this is only my perception, but I would say that Latvians tend to be shy, quiet, and very individualistic. I think this is changing, though, as we try to do more things together. As for Lithuanians, I’ve always thought of them as “let’s just get the work done,” an impression formed during my visits to the M. K. Čiurlionis School of Art, where I observed their approach to work. I also feel that they have modern dance techniques that we don’t have at the Riga Ballet School, where I work. Additionally, Lithuanians have traveled a lot more, which gives them a different perspective on dance and artistic practices.
When I think about Estonians, I notice that they create art in a way where the dance itself can sometimes disappear, but the body remains central. There are works that may not look like traditional dance pieces at all, yet they use the body extensively.
Rūta Ronja Pakalne: I mean, one thing is what’s happening in the field, and another is how to define or identify certain qualities that distinguish the dance scenes in different countries. For me, I’ve noticed some drastic changes in Lithuania’s contemporary dance scene. In the past, I would have ranked them in order of technical proficiency as Riga, Tallinn, Vilnius — but now, it definitely feels more like Vilnius, Tallinn, Riga. Whatever that means.
Also, in my perception, Estonia leans more towards conceptual approaches, Latvia is more modern, and Lithuania is currently moving towards a contemporary dance rave aesthetic.
But I think we should focus more on working together and appreciating our differences, and there are probably many more nuances to explore.
If you could imagine Baltic contemporary dance without any stereotypes or preconceptions, how would you like it to be perceived?
Rūta Pūce: I would like artists from the Baltic countries to be perceived as free. I think freedom is the key word.
Rūta Ronja Pakalne: First of all, I would like them to know where it is. I also think that we are capable of reaching — let’s call it — the “big pond” or the bigger market with our work. When I go to big festivals and watch performances, I think that some artists from the Baltics could be there too. Yet somehow, we remain underrepresented.
In my experience, Lithuania has been quite present internationally — in France and other places — and I hope that the Baltics in general could spread that presence and energy even more.